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November 1, 2011
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Good Nudes vs. Bad Nudes?

Tue Nov 1, 2011, 2:57 PM by $techgnotic:icontechgnotic:






:icontechgnotic:
Foreword by $techgnotic
Tue Nov 1, 2011, 3:23 PM



Contours in Context
The argument for the nude in art:


Our visual perception of the human face and then the human body has set the basis since the beginning of
human history for our sense of what is beautiful and what initiates all our seminal ineffable sublime feelings
about the nature of love, life, desire, destiny, eternity, ad infinitum.  The curvatures and symmetries of the
human body even lay the geometric basis for the artistic structures of all our art forms, not only for the visual
arts but also for literature and architecture. Given the primacy of the body as the beginning of all that we are
in life, and given the eye as the primary receiver for the collection of all information in our lives, how could
the artistic nude not be a massively represented art form on a global arts forum like deviantART?  And besides,
nudes are something people enjoy looking at – and art needs no other justification than being something that
brings some small amount of pleasure into our lives.












The knock on the nude in art:

You mean men enjoy looking at nudes.  And women not nearly so much – because they have to endure the daily indignities
of being treated like mindless “objects” by clueless men.  Nude art in any media will always teeter precariously on a very
fine edge separating the “empowering” from the “demeaning.”  It’s all in the context.  Helmut Newton famously photographed
a model on a bed wearing a saddle. Is this erotic fine
art or just high-gloss perversion?  Is it the artist’s intent to audaciously exercise his adoration of the nude form or to
merely indulge misogynistic darknesses? And you, viewing Newton’s photograph, will have to make your own decision as to
the worth of the piece, based in the unique context of everything you’ve experienced in your life.









The Eternal Question:
When is the Nude art...
and when is it not?

These questions seem to always arise when one encounters the nude – in photography, paintings, sculptures, even in song and
literature – an encounter fraught with more emotional, political and personal baggage than almost any other art experience.  
The artist’s intent is immediately at issue: Is this a sharing, a provocation, a statement?  Is this erotica to be enjoyed for
its sensual beauty and invocation of the mysteries of desire?  Or is this prurient junk fit only for baser purposes?  Or does
the nudity have very little to do with the ultimate message of the piece? The problem?












We don’t really know the artist’s
intent – And we’re left with our own
reaction to the artwork for judging
its artistic worth and merit.
That’s the problem.


























It’s so intimately subjective

One person’s erotic art is another person’s worthless sensationalism.  There can be no ultimate judge or definer –
and thankfully the majority of people in the world have recognized this fact of life and are against most censorships.
This leaves us with the vexing debate as to how much nudes is too much nudes on deviantART.



The only thought I can offer is that, because men (and women) photographing, painting and sculpting nudes is not going
away. We know better than to try to censor art or empower bureaucratic “judges” to set limits, it is imperative that we
keep the current conversation going about what is good and beautiful and what is bad and dangerous about our ubiquitous
nudes situation.  If only we can remain ever mindful and considerate of – and always remain in dialogue about – the good
and bad possible side effects of the nude art we enjoy, then maybe we can have our erotica and our feminism, too.



Kind of like enjoying alcohol, but knowing to never drive drunk.  Art is never entirely stand alone.  The context is
always present, transformative, and as important to the experience of art as the art object itself.













In February of 2012 I plan on revisiting this subject by interviewing artists and models on deviantART to get their
thoughts and opinions on the ideas and arguments that are represented in the comments section of this article.  After
answering the questions please let me know which artist or models you might like to see interviewed for that article.
I am also considering providing the commentary as a live interview/debate instead of an article.


Any thoughts on that idea?




Questions for the reader:


  1. Do you think there is too much nude subject matter on deviantART or is it a non-issue for you?  How much do you think your gender or sexual preferences might influence your answer?

  2. When is censorship of art permissible?   Where would you draw the line?  What rational rule could you offer as a practical guideline?

  3. Have you ever had a work of art you created censored or banned in any way?

  4. If an artist really believes in what he or she has created, how should the artist respond to censorship of that art?  Have you been made aware of an instance of “art suppression” via the Internet?

  5. Would you ever suggest to another artist that he or she should tone a work of art down or agree to the censorship of an art object in a specific situation?




:thumb194853072:











Article Update:
Tue Nov 1, 2011, 5:45 PM

Many of you have brought up the notion that any isolated display of genitals would not be artistic.
Would your opinion change if the discussion involved Judy Chicago's "The Dinner Party"
or Georgia O'Keeffe’s flower paintings?
























Credits


Writers

$techgnotic



Designers

$marioluevanos



Advisor in Chief

$makepictures








Resources



This article may be redistributed on the web by link and with attribution to deviantART but not re-printed without deviantART's permission.









Add a Comment:
 
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:iconlly23:
as long as you treat it with a right set of thinking it should be fine. but you have to know the borderline in between which varied from diferrent thinking.
Reply
:iconcouchycreature:
*CouchyCreature Apr 13, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
I don't have any issues with nudity in art, or artistic representations of nudity. But I do have issues with sensationalist exposure of sexual organs that are bereft of art. There seems to be a proliferation of grainy, generally out-of-focus images, often shot with a camera in a mirror, of genitals at DA. An erect penis can be art, but mostly not, so those should be, and are included in the 'rules of engagement'. Spread buttock cheeks or labia are also on my hit list of unimaginative, sensationalist imagery, and they, to some degree are on the TOS hit-list.

The suggestion by some to turn on the 'Mature Filter' doesn't work for me. I like an artistic nude. I like looking to see how artists try to represent the human form and make it artful. I have a small collection in my favourites folder which illustrate art and nudity that I like, and I am always on the lookout for more. I don't browse Artistic Nudes to find examples I don't like, but to find examples I do like.

On a site for artists, I am suspect of imagery that is about sex, and sex alone. Many of the submissions I take offence at are like the virtual equivalent of the flasher with his overcoat walking behind a group of schoolgirls, calling out to them and then pulling open his overcoat because he gets excited by the shocked reactions. That is not art, that is sexual gratification. A gallery full of shots of your own penis and nothing else is not art, it is obsession. If anything, such images should be in the 'Fetish Portraits' category because fetishism is about the power of objects, including, I presume, one's own penis, or someone's vagina.

I am also suspicious when I see a gallery that has nothing but self-shot pussy or penis images, most of which are placed in the 'Artistic Nude' category, and mostly far from that description in my eyes. I am also suspicious when I see submission descriptions like - "What do you think ladies, awesome huh?". Many of the images I object to here would not be notably out of place in a website for self-shot porn. My contention is that there are plenty of those around the web where those so disposed could upload their genital pics, but there are very few successful community websites for artists to share their work and thoughts.

I was thinking on this issue of what is art only recently and it inspired me to try and find out what art was ...a minefield comes to mind first up. I came across pithy 4 word descriptions and lofty intellectual treatises, some of which appealed to my understanding of what art is. Primarily, to my way of thinking, there needs to be actual intent to make art. Some small effort beyond waking up, grabbing your phone and snapping a picture of your morning boner because you think it looks awesome is required. Below are a number of quotes that I thought nailed it -

'The expression or application of human creative skill and imagination & works produced by such skill and imagination'.

'Creative activity'

'Art is the product or process of deliberately arranging symbolic elements in a way that influences and affects the senses, emotions, and/or intellect.'

'The use of skill and imagination in the creation of aesthetic objects, environments, or experiences that can be shared with others.'

'Art is form and content
Form means:
• The elements of art,
• the principles of design and
• the actual, physical materials that the artist has used.
Content is idea-based and means:
• What the artist meant to portray,
• what the artist actually did portray and
• how we react, as individuals, to both the intended and actual messages

'A study of creative skill, a process of using the creative skill, a product of the creative skill, or the audience's experience with the creative skill.'

I browse 'Artistic Nudes' fairly regularly, wanting to see those artistic expressions that take a naked body away from the mundane and into the realism of sheer beauty. Mostly I am dissappointed, mostly there are pretty mundane attempts to 'get it', and often there are rubbish, sensationalist submissions that make me curse the invention of cameras in phones, even though I have seen some spectacular photographs taken with them.

The problem mostly exists in photography in my eyes. Any other form does require some creative thinking and planning to get what is in one's head out onto their chosen medium, but digital cameras can be instantaneous, no thinking required.

I report any deviation that I think breaches the TOS. I sometimes think that the response to those reports is very tardy, and sometimes I think they err on the side of too much freedom of intepretation of the terms of service, but I am not one of the arbiters so I need to accept that my point of view is not always correct. I also report misplaced deviations.

So that's it, that's what I think. If you have persevered, thanks for taking the time to read my rant.

David
Reply
:iconulteriorpanzie:
Mood: Neutral ~Ulteriorpanzie Apr 12, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
(This whole group of statements goes in order from the questions asked)
[link] I'm going to give my honest opinion... I do not care if art is nude or not I mean art is art and for fucks sake do not categorize all men as assholes because some are complete sexist dicks... I mean holy shit whoever thinks all men are like that are just as bad as the people who are really like that (this statement refers to this article and the part about all men being mean and sexist) [link] . Also do not start removing nude content or even lowering it because for the love of god there is a mature content button for a reason and if you do not like it click the dang thing and use it because that's what its there for, to filter out mature content so do not complain about it.
When it comes to censorship I think its not up to us it is up to the artist so if the artist wishes to censor all of their artwork let them because it is not our decision.
No none of the art I have created has been banned and or censored and for that matter I haven't even made much art in the past few years... Not enough time lol.
If an artist believes in what they have created then let them because its a dick move to whoever says "You cant have this because I don't like it" and or "I am offended by this so take it down" because I have some simple solutions for you. 1: If you don't like it get the hell away from it. 2: If you are offended by it same as before, get the hell away from it because just because you are offended by it that doesn't mean everyone else is.
If the artist was my friend and I felt that it was so horrible that they should tone it down, yeah I would suggest that to them but it all depends on the circumstance. Also when it comes to my definition of horrible it has to be something extraordinarily bad and I mean so bad that it makes you want to gouge your eyes out because of how bad it was.
Thats it for my answers lol sorry its so long XD
Reply
:iconulteriorpanzie:
~Ulteriorpanzie Apr 12, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
Ignore the links everybody XD they were put there on accident :I
Reply
:iconimpish-midna:
~impish-midna Apr 9, 2012  Student General Artist
Every day on deviantart, I see at least 5 nude or barely dressed pictures of women, sometimes all on the front page. Yet there's hardly any male nude art. It's so one sided. for a while, I quit logging on because I was so fed up with seeing it all the time. As a woman, I really don't care to look at other women.
Reply
:icontokyo18zelda:
~tokyo18zelda Apr 27, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
I agree. I know this makes me sound perverted, but I wanted to see how difficult it was to find male nudes and it was surprisingly hard to do, and with a few clicks I can find countless female nudes.
Reply
:iconmatthewami:
~matthewami Sep 11, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
I can respect that. All you want is for it to be taken off the homepage, not the whole site.
Reply
:iconmr-rabie:
In my opinion, nude art still follows the rules of artwork. There must be vision, message, style, and all the other great jazz that flows with the beauty of true art. I see badly portrayed art all the time, almost more than I see badly portrayed nude art. There is a thick obvious line between artistic nudity and simple porn. Some of the best nude art I have seen has not aroused me the slightest. Nude art is not pornography, so pornography is not nude art. When I judge nude art in my mind, I don't judge on the basis of how much skin i can see, but how much more than the body I see. The greatest nude art has shown me more than a man's or woman's flesh or lack there of, it has shown me a frame or portrait of the artist's message. I have seen nude art that was truly art without message, but there is still a great difference between the artwork of it, and the blatant bareness of simple pornography.

On a comedic note... call me queer, but the best nude art I've seen was of men. (yes multiple men in one piece)((nude))(((I'm straight)))
Reply
:icongemmawolf:
I don't look through nude art, but it often appears on the list of DDs.

1. At first I was thinking "Yes, there's too much". But then I realised that there's too much nudity of women. I'm not a feminist, and I'm not against nude art. I would just like to see more balance. It aggravates me that it always seems to be women. Also, the classy stuff doesn't phase me at all - it's the stuff that's meant to be sexy that annoys me. I think that there's more reason to censor a photo of a woman in a tight, push-up bodice and stockings, lying on her back, than another woman who is just naked in some sort of folded position. I suppose it's a bit uncomfortable to see other females nude, and I'd prefer to look at a man's body than a woman's. But I can appreciate the art in either.

2. Like I said, I think the more erotic/fantasy images should be censored - free to look at if you want to, but not in your face. I also feel more comfortable with nudity if the image is in grey-scale. As for other guidelines? No 'interaction'. If you get my drift. But that's not accepted on here anyway. As far as breasts go: no nipples (usually the case) and no focusing on them. They make me feel exposed and uncomfortable.

3. No.

4. I think an artist should respect the regulation of censorship, but only so long as those rules are fair, i.e.: making the art accessible to those who are interested. That doesn't mean they should go around trolling if the rules are unfair; there are plenty of other sites, probably magazines, and if you're really that good, galleries.

5. If I thought something was so bad then I would suggest an age filter for this site. But if it was just awful then I'd simply report it, and let someone with a higher authority deal with the situation, be it censor or remove.

None of this really applies to me, as I don't come across nude often except for in the DDs. But I figured I should throw in my opinion once I discovered I had one. But not much phases me. :)
Reply
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